What to look for when buying Gillette Vintage Razors for use or collection

[todras]

As a newer member here and having now become aware of the extent of knowledge and particularly experience of members such as @eggbert, @alfredus and the quite frankly exceptional collection of Double Edged Safety Razors (the incredible brush collection is for another thread) that @Mark1966] owns I thought I might ask a few questions and learn something new.....I'm sure there are a raft of other members with a wealth of knowledge and nice collections also so my mentions here are by no means exclusionary or exclusive, these are the three that in my limited time here I have experience with and who I have sort advice from in one way or another.

I am very much interested in learning about what is desirable for collection, what is rare, what to look for in the various models when buying them used and more importantly, where are some places to go looking... approaching the question from the perspective of both collecting for my own learning, and for razors that one could use as part of a daily shave routine - something I will do in the future.

From my limited reading on the subject via the online forums over the last 10 years or so, I am obviously aware that the Gillette Fatboy , Gillette Slim and the Gillette Super Speed are very collectable and increasingly popular in addition to being great for a daily razor, having owned a Super Speed and a Fatboy some years ago myself.

I am also aware that there are a wide variety of year and model numbers (series specifically) and a number of issues such as brassing and so forth that can occur when buying these vintage beauties. It is my intention to pickup 2 or 3 of the more common Gillettes sometime down the track so during this exchange I may ask a fair few quite beginner or naive questions which I will apologize for now.

In starting this thread I hope we can share some experience, post some pictures to provide illustrations or examples, I and other people can gain some education, ask a series of irritatingly novice questions of some of the accomplished and experienced and bloody impressive collectors here.

 

[eggbert]

Thanks for the mention, but there are others who've been wet shaving a few weeks that have a more extensive collection of razors than I with my 3 (2 if you don't count the aluminium tech I've only used once).

 

[alfredus]

Same goes for me - I have one vintage Gillette left in the collection and don't think I have ever even shaved with it.

I never encountered a vintage, that really worked for me, although they are still some left I would like to try.

The only tip I can give: unless you have hawk eyes like @Mark1966, who seems to be able to perfectly analyse even the worst picture on ebay, I would buy only from either trusted sources or in person.

I once had (my first) British fat handle tech - everywhere described as one of the smoothest razors out there. Yet I could not get a decent shave out of it - there was always so much blood. Then I measured the blade gap and it was something like 50% more than it should have been. Upon very close inspection, I realised, that somebody had bent the safety bar to get a more aggressive shave.

That is also the reason I would never recommend a vintage razor to a newbie - except it comes from a trusted source. You simply don't know, if it shaves the way it should.

 

[Mark1966]

There is some tips on buying vintage razors here - Buying Vintage Razors - a primer

I'll come back and give a more fulsome response later

 

[todras]

Thanks for the mention, but there are others who've been wet shaving a few weeks that have a more extensive collection of razors than I with my 3 (2 if you don't count the aluminium tech I've only used once).

I was more referring to your knowledge in the area, not intending on citing you as a collector - I should have been more clear when posting.

Im just after general opinions, advice or such forth as to things to look out for, what you like in a general sense.

 

[todras]

Same goes for me - I have one vintage Gillette left in the collection and don't think I have ever even shaved with it.

I never encountered a vintage, that really worked for me, although they are still some left I would like to try.

The only tip I can give: unless you have hawk eyes like @Mark1966, who seems to be able to perfectly analyse even the worst picture on ebay, I would buy only from either trusted sources or in person.

I once had (my first) British fat handle tech - everywhere described as one of the smoothest razors out there. Yet I could not get a decent shave out of it - there was always so much blood. Then I measured the blade gap and it was something like 50% more than it should have been. Upon very close inspection, I realised, that somebody had bent the safety bar to get a more aggressive shave.

That is also the reason I would never recommend a vintage razor to a newbie - except it comes from a trusted source. You simply don't know, if it shaves the way it should.

Thanks for the headsup and the contribution, I've been wet shaving for nigh on 25 years now but having not looked at the now vintage Gillette razors in about as many years. I presumed you were a current user or had a few in your kit, no harm done though.

 

[todras]

There is some tips on buying vintage razors here - Buying Vintage Razors - a primer

I'll come back and give a more fulsome response later

Thanks, very much appreciate your posting here. That guide will make for some introductory reading and give me more of an idea as to what's what.

 

[Mark1966]

First question I suppose is what is the aim of collecting?

I started from my birth year and then ended up wanting one of EVERYTHING - thus the collection as it is and with the COST that it came with

A key distinction is whether you are looking to collect for investment purposes or use. For investment purposes you want rare, limited edition, prototypes, NOS, complete sets. You will either have to look really hard or pay a high price.

If you are more focussed on usage then you can focus on user grade or better without all the paraphenalia and look to get representative samples and pick the eyes out of those that appeal to you in some way.

Certainly the Fatboy is a 'modern' vintage Gillette icon - and a very worthy razor to have in any collection. The Slim an affordable alternative is worthwhile. The NEW is another classic that is often a core in any serious collection looking at covering the range of razors performance wise.

The British Aristocrats are also highly favoured and collectible. They are well made, rhodium plated and absolutely beautiful. As well as that the #16 and #15 are great solid guard bar and open comb one piece razors.

Is that helpful?

 

[todras]

First question I suppose is what is the aim of collecting?
A key distinction is whether you are looking to collect for investment purposes or use. For investment purposes you want rare, limited edition, prototypes, NOS, complete sets. You will either have to look really hard or pay a high price.

Scarcity then (quite obviously) exerts an effect on price of razors with the rare, limited edition and, I assume especially prototype razors being highly prized. Again I assume that other variables:- age of the razors, large online auction sites and the growing popularity and publicity of both DE's as an investment and wet-shaving has driven prices upwards, for those collecting and those buying for use.

Can you explain "NOS" for me with an example ?

If you are more focussed on usage then you can focus on user grade or better without all the paraphenalia and look to get representative samples and pick the eyes out of those that appeal to you in some way.

This most accurately describes my circumstance, aside from the genuine interest purely as an intellectual exercise, of learning about the specific qualities that investment collectors such as yourself look for in various models.

I have no intention of collecting, due to the reasons previously mentioned - it's a case of being way to late to the party.. The commodity has peaked and is now at a premium, diving in would not make any rational sense from an investment perspective, however I would like to learn about a few of the more reasonably priced razors, with a view to purchasing them at some time in the future to use.

Certainly the Fatboy is a 'modern' vintage Gillette icon - and a very worthy razor to have in any collection. The Slim an affordable alternative is worthwhile. The NEW is another classic that is often a core in any serious collection looking at covering the range of razors performance wise.

The British Aristocrats are also highly favoured and collectible. They are well made, rhodium plated and absolutely beautiful. As well as that the #16 and #15 are great solid guard bar and open comb one piece razors.

The models that you mention I am somewhat familiar with particularly in the context of people using them on a daily basis. I won't ask you to narrow down specific series, years and so forth as I will do some reading, research and further investigation in that regard possibly asking you a few follow up questions when I am more educated and well read on what's out there.

In regard to buying the razors you have mentioned for daily use, are there any sites you recommend aside from Ebay ?

Cheers for the forum link and taking the time to give me an outline, @Mark1966 it has been very beneficial.

 

[alfredus]

NOS = new out of box

Basically brand new, never used (or should look it anyway).

Complete packaging is still present (outer shipper, blades, instructions,...) and sometimes the razor itself is still wrapped in plastic inside the case. So it is in the same form, it used to be when you bought it brand new 20, 30, 50 or even 100 years ago.

Very rarely is a razor advertised as NOS really NOS - the term is often used to attract attention (any one else love the Alu Tech advertised as Fat Boys), but a closer look reveals, that while the razor might be in great condition, it is certainly not NOS.

Be prepared to pay stupid amounts for real NOS razors, even more common ones.

So (and please correct me @Mark1966 if I am totally off):
Fat Boy: ~$30-50
Cased Fat Boy in decent condition: $100+
NOS Fat Boy with shipper etc: $300+

These are of course market values - you might be lucky and get the later for $5 at a garage sale.

And remember if you buy that NOS to use it - the value goes straight down

 

[todras]

Thanks for taking the time to explain the basics @alfredus appreciate your input!

When I go looking for a few vintage DE's I will be buying them to use, my main concern will be functionality and condition of the razor itself. A bit of wear and tear is fine, less is best but price is a consideration. The packaging, cases and so forth are not something that will be that critical for me.

From the perspective of cost and utility, if I were for some remote chance able to buy a NOS of whatever model and then to use it, not only would I be paying a substantially higher price but I would also be depriving a genuine collector of an untouched item - quite frankly not something I would be at all happy doing

I spent a few hours last night out of boredom browsing ebay and your price point for a Fat Boy is about right, there of course being a range depending on how much wear, brassing, etc the razor has with some vendors charging a premium due to their having a large supply & seizing a market opportunity. A fair few of them crop up on the US sites, WE sub-reddit for instance. I also took a look at a US vendor (forget the name, lots of military gun colours) that restores and re-plates them - the colours being not at all to my taste but I noticed they also sell the plain models albeit at a fairly high price.

 

[eggbert]

I think you can double your initial fatboy estimate, unless you get very lucky.

 

[alfredus]

I think you can double your initial fatboy estimate, unless you get very lucky.

All of them, or only the NOS???

 

[eggbert]

All of them, or only the NOS???

Sorry, meant the usergrade models. Don't see many going for $30 unless you get lucky in the wild.

 

[Maxime D.]

I think you can double your initial fatboy estimate, unless you get very lucky.

No need to double, just put it US$

 

[Mark1966]

Scarcity then (quite obviously) exerts an effect on price of razors with the rare, limited edition and, I assume especially prototype razors being highly prized. Again I assume that other variables:- age of the razors, large online auction sites and the growing popularity and publicity of both DE's as an investment and wet-shaving has driven prices upwards, for those collecting and those buying for use.

Can you explain "NOS" for me with an example ?

@alfredus has but it literally means 'New Old Stock' and often arises from stock that is found many years latter unsold by a retailer. For example I have a Gillette Executive set, one of six in a case found by a guy picking in the US at a garage sale, see details here - http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-Executive-Set-With-Rarely-Seen-Outer-Shipper

I also have a 1924 Paris Olympics set, one of three from a seller in France who just stumbled across them at the back of a cupboard from memory - http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/245274-NOS-Olympic-Special-Pioneer-Old-Type (my set is still sealed)

Neither will touch my face

I also have a NOS Slim Aristocrat which I hope will break the 'if it is NOS don't use it!' rule when I give it to my son - http://paste-and-cut.com.au/communi...th-bithday-present-for-my-son.854/#post-15495

This most accurately describes my circumstance, aside from the genuine interest purely as an intellectual exercise, of learning about the specific qualities that investment collectors such as yourself look for in various models.

I have no intention of collecting, due to the reasons previously mentioned - it's a case of being way to late to the party.. The commodity has peaked and is now at a premium, diving in would not make any rational sense from an investment perspective, however I would like to learn about a few of the more reasonably priced razors, with a view to purchasing them at some time in the future to use.

You CAN still find bargains but it is hard from Australia as we tend to be limited to online sites, we don't have the culture of yard sales and the plethora of antique stores that the US does. I'm also not entirely sure that the market has peaked. It has certainly increased but there is some ebb and flow that I sense is an increase, pause, increase type pattern. With online auctions it is the SECOND highest bidder who effectively determines the price - so you need two interested parties

The models that you mention I am somewhat familiar with particularly in the context of people using them on a daily basis. I won't ask you to narrow down specific series, years and so forth as I will do some reading, research and further investigation in that regard possibly asking you a few follow up questions when I am more educated and well read on what's out there.

Happy to answer questions either in general or on specific items!

In regard to buying the razors you have mentioned for daily use, are there any sites you recommend aside from Ebay ?

Etsy internationally and Gumtree here, but eBay is the main one. Look OUTSIDE the US for best results if looking to save money but be warned - buying from France can be problematic with language and postage being complications

Cheers for the forum link and taking the time to give me an outline, @Mark1966 it has been very beneficial.

Good

 

[todras]

Guys, sincere appreciation for your contributions here. I am doing a fair deal of reading and learning now based on the information you have so kindly provided, sometime down the track I will look at picking up 3 or 4 of the Vintage models for the purposes of shaving but prior to doing so the enjoyment I am getting from reading, looking and learning about the models, revisions and desirability of these razors is very rewarding in and of itself

@Mark1966 Your collection, expert knowledge and the quite frankly incredible examples you have shown me here are sincerely appreciated. My significant other works as a Museum curator and she was incredibly impressed with your collection. I am sure there are a few other collectors in the world like you, but having you as an Aussie posting here is something else mate. Many thanks. When I am more comfortable and more educated I will ask a few follow up questions regarding the models I am looking at acquiring.

 

[todras]

No need to double, just put it US$

I was actually talking/thinking US Dollars, force of habit

I can see where the $30-$50 Fatboy price misunderstanding arose...

 

[filobiblic]

@Mark1966 is THE one with the advice in this area.

My interest is in NON-Gillette razors so that's what I can speak about... (More on that below.)

Bargains are becoming harder to find, but can still be found. It takes time, patience, knowledge and a bit of luck.

Here's some random advice (some echoes what @Mark1966 says):

* Look beyond the US market for the harder to find items as US buyers will be all over them. They tend to not purchase as much from international sellers (although this is changing!). Also be careful of international sellers - it takes more time and effort to get a result. Some ONLY post on language specific eBay sites (or shaving forums) so you have to navigate these. They also may only have local postage so you'd have to try and get them to send internationally (it's exy for you). You're often taking more of a chance as well due to language difficulties...

* Know what you want and how much you are willing to pay. Do your research via Google searches, completed/sold searches on eBay, forum posts, SOTD photos, etc.
It often takes time -many months at least- to wait for a bargain or fair price. I recall a member here saying once it took the patience of a crocodile waiting for its prey...

* User grade items will sell for less, but know how much they are really worth and their potential resale value. For example, you could end up paying $50 for a Slim that's really only worth $30 max. Watch, wait and learn.

* Ask on the forums for items before trying eBay. There's blokes who are willing to sell off razors and will often give you a MUCH fairer price than an eBay lottery.

My interest is NON-Gillette razors (and specific ones at that) for USE not for collecting. These are often not mentioned or found on English-speaking forums so have been overlooked by the Western shavers. But they are harder to source and harder to acquire. There are MANY international (non-English speaking) wet shavers who have a rich wet shaving history. So there are MANY international razors that you will have never heard of and are difficult to acquire. You have to be prepared to pay more (postage, currency exchange costs) for average condition razors. But IMHO these razors are better than many Gillette razors for USE.

 

[alfredus]

A cased one for 75US$ and looked very clean as well

https://www.reddit.com/r/Shave_Bazaar/comments/4r9txt/wts_cased_g1_fatboy/