DIY Homemade Shaving Soap

khun_diddy said:
Very interesting link. I would't be at all surprised if the Escentials stuff is the less pure gear as it's crazy cheap. I've just checked the label on the bag and it says 'octadecanoic acid' but makes no mention of the shorter FAs. I'll fire off an email to Escentials and report back when I hear from them.
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Check if they have a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) on their page - that should also give you the analysis - in case you don't know CAS is the Chemical Abstract number which uniquely identifies a chemical compound. If they don't have it on their page, ask for it. They have to supply you with one!
 
alfredus said:
Check if they have a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) on their page - that should also give you the analysis - in case you don't know CAS is the Chemical Abstract number which uniquely identifies a chemical compound. If they don't have it on their page, ask for it. They have to supply you with one!
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The CAS on their page is CAS#:57-11-4 which is stearic acid. I have emailed them asking for more info.
 
khun_diddy said:
The CAS on their page is CAS#:57-11-4 which is stearic acid. I have emailed them asking for more info.
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Check the link provided - thats EXACTLY the same trap the author of the article fell into before a chemist member in the UK contacted him to advise of this common industry furfy. The MP's don't match up - which is the hint the author gave to folks who are wanting to check this. As was stated the cheap 'Stearic Acid' mixes on the market are actually this Palmitic/Stearic mix...DYOR but I've been checking it for the past hour and I'm certain it's exactly the same situation as the authoer flagged (and he was caught out on so you're in good company).

PS. @khun_diddy , thanks for contacting EoA, I was thinking of doing the same as I share your suspicion that as it's so cheap it's the mix (thats always the case from overseas reports) - will wait to hear back from you. (y)
 
Nick the Knife said:
Check the link provided - thats EXACTLY the same trap the author of the article fell into before a chemist member in the UK contacted him to advise of this common industry furfy. The MP's don't match up - which is the hint the author gave to folks who are wanting to check this. As was stated the cheap 'Stearic Acid' mixes on the market are actually this Palmitic/Stearic mix...DYOR but I've been checking it for the past hour and I'm certain it's exactly the same situation as the authoer flagged (and he was caught out on so you're in good company).
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It's a problem because then stearic Steve has been using is the very pure stuff and this stuff is probably the less pure gear. In any case, I'll make up a 50/30/20 soap now to set myself a baseline.

Also worth noting - we have made some amazing soaps with this stuff so far so it definitely does the trick.
 
Trivial-ish tip - but always pays to calibrate your scales before you do a batch. One of the easiest ways is to use one or several $1 coins. Which weigh PRECISELY 9.0g each. Simple and easy way to make sure your scales are working properly. :)
 
Nick the Knife said:
Trivial-ish tip - but always pays to calibrate your scales before you do a batch. One of the easiest ways is to use one or several $1 coins. Which weigh PRECISELY 9.0g each. Simple and easy way to make sure your scales are working properly. :)
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Very good tip. Cheers. Seems both the scales here are in order. :)
 
Gent's V1

I have the ideal surname for a shaving products company. Should it be Gent's as in mine, or Gents' as in of all gentlemen? Or perhaps Gent's' could be my little gimmick...

stearic acid...50%
olive oil......30%
castor oil.....20%
glycerine......to 33% of stearic acid weight

Hydroxides were 60/40 in favour of KOH. Superfat was reduced from 5% to 3% in light of the purity concerns.

This is essentially the original recipe which I'll use as my baseline for this particular stearic acid purity. The saturated/unsaturated fatty acid ratio is 55/45. The more saturated FAs, the more stable the lather will be, the more cleansing (skin drying) the lather will be and the greater the shelf life of the soap will be. The double bonds in unsaturated fatty acids are targets for oxidation. It may be that down the track I need to look at incorporating a minute volume of tocopheryl acetate to help prevent this, or it may be that there is no issue. Only time will tell. For reference purposes, Martin de Candre shaving soap has a 95/5 ratio in favour of saturated FAs.

Glycerine was reduced ever so slightly from 20% of total oil weight to 33% of stearic acid weight. Molar considerations say that glycerin added to 10% of the weight of the stearic acid will make up for the glycerin backbone that the free FA lacks. I opted for 33% for a little skin conditioning. All these calculations go somewhat out the window if what I have here is 'stearic acid rich FAs' and not 'stearic acid'.

I decided to only do one large puck. Multiple pucks have not been working for me for a number of reasons. Actual batch weight was 180 g. I scented with 24 drops of cedarwood EO, 2 drops of tea tree EO. I reckon an increase of 50% is in order.

I need to be quicker in getting the soap out of the crockpot and into the container.

It lathers like nobody's business!
 
Very interesting @khun_diddy . I'm about midway through the epic shaving soap thread over at SMF and it's interesting to see where you're at with this vs the SMF crowd.

I know you're getting good results from soaps containing it but I'm still very sus on the OO in the mix. My thoughts are is something else going to bring more to the party than it? e.g RBO, Macadamia, Avo, Shea, Tallow. etc . I'm only sceptical in the face of good results as OO is such a core soaping oil that I'd have thought all and sundry HP shaving soap makers would have tried it to some degree in their testing.....but hey funnier things have happened as their does seem to be a LOT of makers who've basically thought, "Everyone seems to praise MdC, it's really expensive - therefore I'll make a clone of MdC" - this despite there being a lot of feedback that it's very much got all the hallmarks of a CO rich soap (big, dryish lather thats a tad skin stripping).

Anyway please don't take my doubt about OO as anything personal or negative. :)

So are you adding a 'superfat' to the mix post-zap test/completed cook (I assume you're doing this) - or are all the oils going in together you're cooking as one? Assume you're also doing the 2 stage cook......other oils first, then the Stearic after. Glyercin at trace or from the get go (concensus seems to be its not likely to react and so can be added at any stage but later as a 'carrier' for the scent oils isn't a bad idea).

How long did you find that you ended up having to cook the mix before it was done? I'm assuming you did a smaller container within a crockpot of hot water or did you do directly into the pot with the mix?

Nice sounding results though.

PS. This is unrelated totally but you ADL boys might consider adding Citric Acid to your batches - to get Sodium Citrate produced which apparently is a very good chelating compound and assist for places with hard water (which I thought ADL had). If you go down this path you have to up.

FWIW if you decide this is handy, general concensis is this is added at 1%ppo - you then have to offset it by adding more lye, for every 10g of Citric Acid you add 6g of NaOH. Haha another layer of complexity but again I wasn't sure if water hardness was an issue for yourselves. :)
 
Nick the Knife said:
Very interesting @khun_diddy . I'm about midway through the epic shaving soap thread over at SMF and it's interesting to see where you're at with this vs the SMF crowd.

I know you're getting good results from soaps containing it but I'm still very sus on the OO in the mix. My thoughts are is something else going to bring more to the party than it? e.g RBO, Macadamia, Avo, Shea, Tallow. etc . I'm only sceptical in the face of good results as OO is such a core soaping oil that I'd have thought all and sundry HP shaving soap makers would have tried it to some degree in their testing.....but hey funnier things have happened as their does seem to be a LOT of makers who've basically thought, "Everyone seems to praise MdC, it's really expensive - therefore I'll make a clone of MdC" - this despite there being a lot of feedback that it's very much got all the hallmarks of a CO rich soap (big, dryish lather thats a tad skin stripping).

Anyway please don't take my doubt about OO as anything personal or negative. :)

So are you adding a 'superfat' to the mix post-zap test/completed cook (I assume you're doing this) - or are all the oils going in together you're cooking as one? Assume you're also doing the 2 stage cook......other oils first, then the Stearic after. Glyercin at trace or from the get go (concensus seems to be its not likely to react and so can be added at any stage but later as a 'carrier' for the scent oils isn't a bad idea).

How long did you find that you ended up having to cook the mix before it was done? I'm assuming you did a smaller container within a crockpot of hot water or did you do directly into the pot with the mix?

Nice sounding results though.

PS. This is unrelated totally but you ADL boys might consider adding Citric Acid to your batches - to get Sodium Citrate produced which apparently is a very good chelating compound and assist for places with hard water (which I thought ADL had). If you go down this path you have to up.

FWIW if you decide this is handy, general concensis is this is added at 1%ppo - you then have to offset it by adding more lye, for every 10g of Citric Acid you add 6g of NaOH. Haha another layer of complexity but again I wasn't sure if water hardness was an issue for yourselves. :)
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We don't add superfat. We're doing two stage with stearic as the second stage. Glycerin is added with EOs.

Olive oil is 'dissipate-y'. How much the lather dissipates is a function of how much goes in the soap.

More OO = incredible slickness and moisturising effect but no stability. Roger's soap is the epitome of this.

Less OO = great stability but less slickness and moisturising effect.

Where one 'pulls the slider to' is a matter of personal preference. I'm finding that somewhere around 50/30/20 is ideal. Some may prefer 60/20/20. My dad just used today's batch for a two pass shave and loved it. The lather was stable for the whole shave.

We'll keep tinkering.
 
khun_diddy said:
We don't add superfat. We're doing two stage with stearic as the second stage. Glycerin is added with EOs.

Olive oil is 'dissipate-y'. How much the lather dissipates is a function of how much goes in the soap.

More OO = incredible slickness and moisturising effect but no stability. Roger's soap is the epitome of this.

Less OO = great stability but less slickness and moisturising effect.

Where one 'pulls the slider to' is a matter of personal preference. I'm finding that somewhere around 50/30/20 is ideal. Some may prefer 60/20/20. My dad just used today's batch for a two pass shave and loved it. The lather was stable for the whole shave.

We'll keep tinkering.
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Understood, not that it makes a difference but it's actually a lye discount then rather than a superfat - but pretty much 6 one, 1/2 dozen the other. I'd imagine that the unsaponified oil from that would be the OO....stearic is the most reactive, unsure about castor vs olive but suspect the former is more reactive.

Oh I understand completely the pro's and cons of OO in soap. Like I said I'm just wondering whether OO has any advantage over other oils in this regard - prolly no way to tell except testing - though comparing the fatty acid breakdown for them would be a good comparison (I know RBO & Avo are often used as substitutes for OO in CP recipes).

Ah your poor old Dad - he's going to be thinking,"Why have I been shaving my entire life with crap and suddenly I discover this manna from heaven!"
 
Gent's Tallow V1

I've been bitten pretty badly by the soap bug. I couldn't pass by a cube of tallow at the shops this arvo. This recipe is one of Steve's:

stearic acid...50%
tallow.........35%
coconut oil....15%
glycerine......to 33% of stearic acid weight

Steve does hydroxides at 60/40 in favour of KOH. I experimented with 70/30. Superfat (lye discount?) was 3%.

The saturated/unsaturated FA ratio is 84/16. TheSoapCalculator says that I'm in for a harder puck (hence the need for more KOH), with more cleansing power, less conditioning power, similar bubble & similar creaminess to today's OO soap.

Actual batch weight was 173 g. This is a very convenient batch size to make. I scented with 35 drops of cedarwood EO, 4 drops of tea tree EO & 1 drop of lemon myrtle EO. Smells great off the puck.

I was much quicker getting the soap out of the crockpot and into the container which has resulted in a more professional looking end product.

Can't wait to give her a lather!
 
I shaved with the Gent's Tallow V1 this evening. It's a killer soap that a trained sloth could lather within seconds. I had fluffy clouds of soapy goodness going all over the place. After I painted on I looked just like the bloke on the Cella box.

One of the great things about tallow soaps is that they look the part: lily white, uniform & hard. The next time I make this particular recipe I'll try 80/20 KOH/NaOH. Even at 70/30 the puck is super hard. I'll also do a straight swap of castor for coconut at some point in the not too distant future to see how that goes.

Performance was stellar. Scent is still on the mildish side but certainly detectable and pleasant. As I've mentioned before, I like just a hint of scent that sits in the background somewhat elusively. I'll try something like 40/5/2 cedar/tea tree/lemon myrtle next time.
 
Keep up the great work KD. Thanks for the reports. I'm really enjoying following your soapy journey and looking forward to getting hold of some samples ;)
 
OK, so Essentials got back to me. Their 'stearic acid' is:

C12 & C14: 0.5
C16: 57.60
C18: 41.2
C20: 0.5

So a more accurate name for this product would be 'palmitic acid'.
 
khun_diddy said:
OK, so Essentials got back to me. Their 'stearic acid' is:

C12 & C14: 0.5
C16: 57.60
C18: 41.2
C20: 0.5

So a more accurate name for this product would be 'palmitic acid'.
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Haha I'm flattered you think I'm knowledgable enough to have any idea what those shortened names mean - though from what I thought this 'Stearic mix' would be I can essentially deduce it as the numbers are in the ballpark to the one in that post I linked.

Were EoA apologetic or 'oops maybe we should have listed it better on our website at all?' about things or more thats what it is not our issue?

I guess the positive is that as you've said you've been using it and it works well - but I really think there's no reason they couldn't have given a better explaination in the listing of this product - kind of out of kilter with their otherwise quite good professionalism (as they do specialise in selling to an educated crowd and not the general public so the extra effort/info would've been very handy).
 
I wasn't seeking an apology from them, merely clarification. In fact, I've since ordered another kilo of the stuff from them as it makes fantastic soap and is cheap as chips.

I'll most probably make another batch of the olive oil soaps tomorrow. Given that what I have here is not stearic acid but instead:

C12 & C14: 0.5
C16: 57.60
C18: 41.2
C20: 0.5,

I've plugged a recipe of palmitic/stearic/olive/castor into the soap calculator instead of stearic/olive/castor. So instead of 44/36/16, it's 28/20/36/16. Using the more specific recipe, it turns out that I should be using 5% more lye. So for a total oil weight of 154 g, I used 20 g of lye whereas I should have been using 21 g. Quite a big difference.

Interestingly, hardness, cleansing, conditioning, lather and creamy are essentially unchanged by using the more accurate recipe - only the quantity of lye that should be used.
 
I'd say that this 5% is probably offset by other inaccuracies like you scale, thermometer/temperature, volume, cooking time etc. If you would scale up, then of course it would make a difference...
 
The biggest issue is getting the oils out of the weighing vessel and in to the cooking vessel. Ideally the oils should be weighed in the cooking vessel.
 
Since you are not using any solvents and I assume your scale can't handle to tare a 1/2kg-1kg? cooking vessel - the only method that comes to mind is to weigh your oils in a small light vessel, add them you your cooking vessel and then re-weight the "empty" vessel. That way you know at least how much oil you used. Of course you can use anything to scrape things out, but you know how much you actually used.

I would start with the one you use the smallest amount of and then scale the next one to that and so on. The amount that will stay behind is roughly the same - if you use the same weighing vessel - and therefore your error is most negligible with the oil you use the largest amount - hope this makes somehow sense...
 
Yeh, it makes sense. What I'm doing to combat the problem is I'm weighing two oils in the same vessel simultaneously (olive & castor, or tallow & coconut). This means I have only one episode of wastage instead of two. The downside is that I must be very careful in weighing the second oil.
 
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