COFFEE
- Thread starter Nonick
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gthomas04
...was Drubbing's first. AKA Captain Tightarse
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- Aug 22, 2011
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- Mt Druitt Western Sydney
You could well be right @eggbert but if so I wish he would learn to use smileys. With what is going on in the lunatic fringe these days a comment like that without them leads people to wonder what is going on.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2012
- Location
- Coffs Harbour, NSW
@gthomas04 says EXACTLY what I thought all along. Well done sir. 
Anyway, getting back to a certain brown beverage. Did another roast today.....I'd been trying out a bunch of new locally sourced beans and roasting in much smaller quantities than I usually do - oddly enough it was very tricky to get enough heat into the beans. So a 200g roast was trickier for me to do than a 500g roast.....which I think is just down to the smaller and less stable thermal mass that the smaller roast has.
Went with:
100g Sumatan Blue Batak
100g Columbian Excelso
100g Costa Rica La Lapa
200g PNG Peaberry
I'm trying to stretch the roast out a tad longer than I normally do (based on reading advise over at CS to try to wrap up around the 21-23min mark). Found preheating my corretto helped get a bit stabler, more easily controlled roast....also preheated my beans in the sun for an hour or so beforehand.
Took them just to the very edge of 2nd crack, a few were just beginning to make that much sharper/louder crack - so dumped and cooled.
Hopefully will be a lot better than the last 200g roast, which was waaaaaaaaaaay too light and has absolutely no guts/taste to it. Will rest for about 5 days before trying in a valved bag.
Anyway, getting back to a certain brown beverage. Did another roast today.....I'd been trying out a bunch of new locally sourced beans and roasting in much smaller quantities than I usually do - oddly enough it was very tricky to get enough heat into the beans. So a 200g roast was trickier for me to do than a 500g roast.....which I think is just down to the smaller and less stable thermal mass that the smaller roast has.
Went with:
100g Sumatan Blue Batak
100g Columbian Excelso
100g Costa Rica La Lapa
200g PNG Peaberry
I'm trying to stretch the roast out a tad longer than I normally do (based on reading advise over at CS to try to wrap up around the 21-23min mark). Found preheating my corretto helped get a bit stabler, more easily controlled roast....also preheated my beans in the sun for an hour or so beforehand.
Took them just to the very edge of 2nd crack, a few were just beginning to make that much sharper/louder crack - so dumped and cooled.
Hopefully will be a lot better than the last 200g roast, which was waaaaaaaaaaay too light and has absolutely no guts/taste to it. Will rest for about 5 days before trying in a valved bag.
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- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Location
- NSW Central Coast
Genuine apologies to all. I was in fact taking the Michael. I'm certainly not a racist by any means, being the son of migrants myself. Happy to take the lumps, if it gets us back on track.
23 minutes for a roast? Man, I'm a long way off, aren't I? I think my last was around 7 minutes to second crack.
Maybe it is time to be inventive, and grab one of the heat guns from the garage and a metal bowl, and try to fit a slow agitator underneath... or a tumbler on a rotisserie spike, with said heat gun...
23 minutes for a roast? Man, I'm a long way off, aren't I? I think my last was around 7 minutes to second crack.
Maybe it is time to be inventive, and grab one of the heat guns from the garage and a metal bowl, and try to fit a slow agitator underneath... or a tumbler on a rotisserie spike, with said heat gun...
filobiblic
Facepeeler Extraordinare
State Convenor - NSW
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- Apr 29, 2014
- Location
- Sydney
I haven't roasted beans before, but my understanding was different beans have different roast profiles (ie they crack at different times). So that means you should roast each group of beans separately, and then blend them together.@gthomas04 says EXACTLY what I thought all along. Well done sir.
Anyway, getting back to a certain brown beverage. Did another roast today.....I'd been trying out a bunch of new locally sourced beans and roasting in much smaller quantities than I usually do - oddly enough it was very tricky to get enough heat into the beans. So a 200g roast was trickier for me to do than a 500g roast.....which I think is just down to the smaller and less stable thermal mass that the smaller roast has.
Went with:
100g Sumatan Blue Batak
100g Columbian Excelso
100g Costa Rica La Lapa
200g PNG Peaberry
I'm trying to stretch the roast out a tad longer than I normally do (based on reading advise over at CS to try to wrap up around the 21-23min mark). Found preheating my corretto helped get a bit stabler, more easily controlled roast....also preheated my beans in the sun for an hour or so beforehand.
Took them just to the very edge of 2nd crack, a few were just beginning to make that much sharper/louder crack - so dumped and cooled.
Hopefully will be a lot better than the last 200g roast, which was waaaaaaaaaaay too light and has absolutely no guts/taste to it. Will rest for about 5 days before trying in a valved bag.
borked
Shave, collect B&M pokemon, vodka, sleep, repeat
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- Oct 10, 2013
Bah, everyone's prejudicial and while I understood where you were coming from and felt no offence, obviously others unfortunately did.
Difference is how you react to these chemically induced emotions.
Think I'm joking ?
A friendly reminder.
Anyhow, I rather folks openly admit to it, as this demonstrates they're mature enough to acknowledge it and are actively seeking to not only own, yet address their prejudicial thoughts, rather than denying the issue.
I believe prejudicial thoughts spawns from our instinct of wariness of the unknown, as it poses a potential threat, so is a defence mechanism, somewhat made redundant in a modern society and yet to evolve into something beneficial.
Anyhow, BOT, coffee, 7/11 has $1 cups of better than barrista coffee apparently.
I don't drink the stuff, yet for those that struggle to afford elitist organic cat excreted seeds, it might be an option.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2014
23 minutes seems extremely slow...I have a few friends who roast professionally, and I'm pretty sure they are nowhere near that number. I was under the impression to aim for FC around 10-13, and then second a couple of minutes after that...
I'll ask and report back....
I'll ask and report back....
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Location
- NSW Central Coast
I understand the longer time allows the bean to roast evenly through. And I agree with MrT, that 23 minutes for a tiny bean is a long time to heat through (if my understanding is correct).
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2012
- Location
- Coffs Harbour, NSW
Bottomline is we've all gotta take ownership for what we write or atleast clarify ASAP if we are grossly misconstrued. As others said smilies etc are there to assist in correctly read comments the way the author intended....otherwise they can only be taken at face value. Anyway.....
@borked
23mins is deliberately a longer total roast time based on the sticky at CS, first time I have tried but it was a very even roast that came to right where I wanted in the overall progression. As stated it's the first time I've aimed for this rather than a 13 + 4-5 type arrangement, looking for a full city roast type result. I did this solely as the sticky over at CS had a number of heavy hitters advocating this and well I will defer to their knowledge every time...anyway we'll see how it goes.
I think one also has to be very realistic about the actual gear you're using - and what i mean by that is that whilst if you have a commercial grade roaster it might be very feasible to hit a perfect roast profile (lets say that actually is 13+4-5) thats fine - but if you're using a corretto and a cheapie heat gun (as I am) then scorching your roast or farking up the profile at the sole sake of hitting a time figure is kinda dumb. My hope just is that the beans haven't been dried out and lost taste but they certainly passsed the eyeball test as a very even roast that hit bang on my desired end progression e.g just before 2nd crack.
@filobiblic , as mentioned earlier yes it's ideal to roast every (or atleast most) beans separate BUT if you're a home roaster and blending 3-4+ beans in an overall roast of say 500g or less then it's a major PITA to roast each of these separately. Hence you'll find that a lot of shops will sell their green preblended as it tends to be the case that more folks will preblend than post - especially for 3-4+ bean mixes. But again it comes down to how much hassle you want to endure and I will not for a second argue that roasting each ALONE does allow you to get the best out of each separate bean e.g the Sumatran Blue Batak I did yesterday should be taken into 2nd crack but I couldn't as the other 80% of the roast was ready to come off - and so it should not be ideal and have a lil residual bitterness.
@borked
With all due respect the only thing that was 'unfortunate' was the actual OP - everything after that was a direct result of it. Assuming that it was meant benignly and implying everyone else had to accept/agree with this is simply not feasible. And I think @Monsta_AU stated exactly why as such things even if innocent are a very slippery slope.
23mins is deliberately a longer total roast time based on the sticky at CS, first time I have tried but it was a very even roast that came to right where I wanted in the overall progression. As stated it's the first time I've aimed for this rather than a 13 + 4-5 type arrangement, looking for a full city roast type result. I did this solely as the sticky over at CS had a number of heavy hitters advocating this and well I will defer to their knowledge every time...anyway we'll see how it goes.
I think one also has to be very realistic about the actual gear you're using - and what i mean by that is that whilst if you have a commercial grade roaster it might be very feasible to hit a perfect roast profile (lets say that actually is 13+4-5) thats fine - but if you're using a corretto and a cheapie heat gun (as I am) then scorching your roast or farking up the profile at the sole sake of hitting a time figure is kinda dumb. My hope just is that the beans haven't been dried out and lost taste but they certainly passsed the eyeball test as a very even roast that hit bang on my desired end progression e.g just before 2nd crack.
@filobiblic , as mentioned earlier yes it's ideal to roast every (or atleast most) beans separate BUT if you're a home roaster and blending 3-4+ beans in an overall roast of say 500g or less then it's a major PITA to roast each of these separately. Hence you'll find that a lot of shops will sell their green preblended as it tends to be the case that more folks will preblend than post - especially for 3-4+ bean mixes. But again it comes down to how much hassle you want to endure and I will not for a second argue that roasting each ALONE does allow you to get the best out of each separate bean e.g the Sumatran Blue Batak I did yesterday should be taken into 2nd crack but I couldn't as the other 80% of the roast was ready to come off - and so it should not be ideal and have a lil residual bitterness.
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Monsta_AU
...can I interest you in some vintage blades?
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Grand Society
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Okay, I think everything has been clarified and apologies issued. Further off-topic posts will be removed from the thread. The standard "don't be a dick" rule applies.
Now - my thoughts on the long roasty. I think it certainly gives flavours time to develop become more complex. My few pathetic efforts with home roasting gave a fuller, more nuanced palate with a slower roast. It was still pretty crap though as I was using an old breadmaker.
One guy I know that roasts his own tends to stick with SO but roasts in 2 or 3 batches. One quicker roast of around 10-11 mins under second crack, and the other was a much longer roast to just on/just past second crack although I think it was less than the 22-23mins mentioned here - maybe targeting 20? If doing a third batch then he would take it around the middle and go to second crack. It was then cooled, mixed & ~200g valvebagged.
It was quite interesting the different flavour profiles that he could get out of the one bean with different roastings. Used to love going over there when he was doing a roast, there's nothing like the smell of beans copping some heat if you ask me.
Now - my thoughts on the long roasty. I think it certainly gives flavours time to develop become more complex. My few pathetic efforts with home roasting gave a fuller, more nuanced palate with a slower roast. It was still pretty crap though as I was using an old breadmaker.
One guy I know that roasts his own tends to stick with SO but roasts in 2 or 3 batches. One quicker roast of around 10-11 mins under second crack, and the other was a much longer roast to just on/just past second crack although I think it was less than the 22-23mins mentioned here - maybe targeting 20? If doing a third batch then he would take it around the middle and go to second crack. It was then cooled, mixed & ~200g valvebagged.
It was quite interesting the different flavour profiles that he could get out of the one bean with different roastings. Used to love going over there when he was doing a roast, there's nothing like the smell of beans copping some heat if you ask me.
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
I ran my own event espresso business for 11-12 years, The specialty roaster I used when operating (and still use at home) now has his roastery set up in a shed 2 blocks from work. Each morning going to work I am hit with that lovely aroma. Roasting coffee ... ... ... Mmmmmm !!!!!
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Location
- Western Australia
Can someone tell me what the second crack is? Of course I could Google it but that's just boring.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Location
- North
From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_roasting
At approximately 196 °C (385 °F), the coffee will emit a cracking sound. This point is referred to as "first crack," marking the beginnings of a "light roast". At first crack, a large amount of the coffee's moisture has been evaporated and the seeds will increase in size. When the coffee reaches approximately 224 °C (435 °F), it emits a "second crack", this sound represents the structure of the coffee starting to collapse.
At approximately 196 °C (385 °F), the coffee will emit a cracking sound. This point is referred to as "first crack," marking the beginnings of a "light roast". At first crack, a large amount of the coffee's moisture has been evaporated and the seeds will increase in size. When the coffee reaches approximately 224 °C (435 °F), it emits a "second crack", this sound represents the structure of the coffee starting to collapse.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2014
Yep. When roasting, there are two distinct cracking sounds as the beans heat up. First crack is the first one, second is the second one. It's pretty complicated but you get it after a while...
They sound different too, which after some experience you will be able to pick it distinctly. First crack is much louder and distinct, kinda like popping popcorn. Second crack is much lighter and crisper, kinda like pouring milk on rice bubbles.
You tend to get more smoke at second than first crack, and the smell at both points is also different.
I tend to stop my roast before I hear second crack, but only just before, so it is still a fairly dark roast (the smoke is the sign that I look for to stop). For a light roast (for filter coffee), you would stop it well before second crack, maybe only a minute after first crack starts.
They sound different too, which after some experience you will be able to pick it distinctly. First crack is much louder and distinct, kinda like popping popcorn. Second crack is much lighter and crisper, kinda like pouring milk on rice bubbles.
You tend to get more smoke at second than first crack, and the smell at both points is also different.
I tend to stop my roast before I hear second crack, but only just before, so it is still a fairly dark roast (the smoke is the sign that I look for to stop). For a light roast (for filter coffee), you would stop it well before second crack, maybe only a minute after first crack starts.
Monsta_AU
...can I interest you in some vintage blades?
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The first crack really is a 'crack' sound. T is right on the money here, its like popcorn popping but a 'crisper' sound.
The second crack is much more of a pop/click noise. I'd say it's like Pop Rocks in your mouth.
The second crack is much more of a pop/click noise. I'd say it's like Pop Rocks in your mouth.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Location
- Western Australia
So the beans will actually increase in size prior to the first crack? They're sort of exploding a bit with moisture expansion. Interesting.
Monsta_AU
...can I interest you in some vintage blades?
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Not exactly. There is some pressure expansion from the moisture (aka steam), but there are also chemical reactions which occur that help to puff them up. When this is released, you get the first crack but the bean at this stage does not collapse.
The second crack starts to break down the bean chemically.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2015
- Location
- NSW Central Coast
The second crack sounds like the sound that Rice Bubbles make. It is a lot softer than the first crack.
I did a couple of roasts yesterday in the air popper, to just before second crack (I had a dozen or so get there). The wife is off China on Thursday, so I am making a batch of coffee for her to take. The stuff at the hotels we normally stay in is atrocious.
One batch each of PNG Kokoda, and a Peruvian one. The difference in the size of the roasted beans was amazing. The PNG ones are almost twice the size of the Peruvian.
I did a couple of roasts yesterday in the air popper, to just before second crack (I had a dozen or so get there). The wife is off China on Thursday, so I am making a batch of coffee for her to take. The stuff at the hotels we normally stay in is atrocious.
One batch each of PNG Kokoda, and a Peruvian one. The difference in the size of the roasted beans was amazing. The PNG ones are almost twice the size of the Peruvian.
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- Jan 25, 2012
- Location
- North
Crap! I knew there was something I forgot to do this weekend.
Instead I prepared 5 wicking beds, and a raised garden bed for our winter growing season and started off some toms, broccoli, marigolds (for wifebert) pumpkin, cucumbers, and asian greens.
Harvested 6kg of lemongrass (after it had been trimmed), huge bunches of kangkong, and snake bean, and had to chop down my banana trees :sadface:
Made a northern thai chicken curry/soup using the snakebeans and the core of the banana trunk.
Very tasty!
Instead I prepared 5 wicking beds, and a raised garden bed for our winter growing season and started off some toms, broccoli, marigolds (for wifebert) pumpkin, cucumbers, and asian greens.
Harvested 6kg of lemongrass (after it had been trimmed), huge bunches of kangkong, and snake bean, and had to chop down my banana trees :sadface:
Made a northern thai chicken curry/soup using the snakebeans and the core of the banana trunk.
Very tasty!