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filobiblic said:
Which models? I know that the Shavecraft line with the #101 and #102 have SS handles and aluminium heads.
It is very poor form indeed to imply certain materials or to not state clearly what the razor is made from.
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Here directly from his site - my text in red, just to make everything clear...

Shave Craft 101

Introducing the formidable Shave Craft #101 razor.
We applied our knowledge and expertise in creating what are the worlds finest quality mid priced DE razors.
We know what is out there, i.e essentially very rudimentary head designs that practically all look alike and come with a slippery chrome plated handle that most folks end up upgrading to a perfectly machined stainless steel iKon handle.

Here is the game changer.
In this price range there is nothing even remotely close to the precision and quality of our new iKon product :
The Shave Craft #101 Razor Head on Machined 316L Stainless Steel iKon Bamboo Handle

So is it SS chrome plated or Alu chrome plated or ZAMAC chrome plated?

Even worse - nothing about the material:

Model #102

call it an entry level Slant or just a super smooth and efficient safety razor.

We designed this to be a real crowd pleaser as it is very user friendly.

**** You May Request an OSS Handle if You Like – Just Put a Note Regarding this During Checkout

AND NOW THE WORST PART - the #101 Head site:

iKon Razors Has The Best and Most Extensive Selection of Stainless Steel Razors on Todays Market

The ShaveCraft Line is an expansion of our success

Offered is complete 2 Part Head That Will Work on any iKon Manufactured Handle

Similar in Theory to our Best Selling iKon OSS Model;

The #101 ShaveCraft incorporates a dual option head , made to the same high specs as our stainless steel models but at lower retail price point.

Now for me this leads to the conclusion SS at a lower price - simply misleading IMO
 
Ok, I see what you mean; it lacks clarity and wording implies certain materials. FWIW I think a number of small business owners in the wet shaving community have done something similar. (For example Douglas Smythe with incorrect listing of ingredients in his soaps.) It ought to be clear and easy to understand, rather than too much hype.
I'm not sure it was done with maliciousness or trickery but perhaps relying more on hype than clarity. (I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.)
 
filobiblic said:
Ok, I see what you mean; it lacks clarity and wording implies certain materials. FWIW I think a number of small business owners in the wet shaving community have done something similar. (For example Douglas Smythe with incorrect listing of ingredients in his soaps.) It ought to be clear and easy to understand, rather than too much hype.
I'm not sure it was done with maliciousness or trickery but perhaps relying more on hype than clarity. (I do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.)
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And another person I would never buy from - I have the beach, but got this from RR and didn't really know it wasn't...

If you look at my favourite soap makers: Stirling and Mike's there is definitely no lack of information on their site. Same goes with ATT razors, even Weber tells you most of the story and the disclaimers on the RR site with his new razors are almost too much...

So I don't agree, that most small business owner are like that - I would even argue, that if you are proud of your product, than you want to give people as much info as possible...

If you dig a bit deeper on YKW, you will find enough stories about to 2 businesses mentioned above to think twice if you want to spend your hard earned cash on them.
 
alfredus said:
So I don't agree, that most small business owner are like that...
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If you read what I said, I only said some small business owners are like that. I agree that most aim to serve the wet shaving community in an admirable fashion.

But they're only human so even the best (like Rod at Stirling) will make mistakes from time to time. (See @Nick the Knife's recent interactions as case in point.)

alfredus said:
If you dig a bit deeper on YKW, you will find enough stories about to 2 businesses mentioned above to think twice if you want to spend your hard earned cash on them.
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I could, I'm not sure I want to do that. It's a bit of a minefield over there. You really need to be careful about separating the wheat from the chafe. Some people tend to get their nose put out of joint at the slightest upset (whether a mistake or not) and then rant lyrical about it.

But I do think that when there is enough "smoke" spread out across several forums and groups (Facebook, Reddit, etc) then it's a different story.
 
Oh good oh good I get to post!

After Peach was kind enough to sell me his R41 (apparently after his relationship with it went on the rocks) I have used it as my daily razor for hmm a couple of months now.

Coming from straights certain personalities here thought an OC would be be ok for me (ahem Stillsy - thanks mate)

I really enjoy using it. Actually my T.R. Cadman straight, completing it's 2014 tour of duty, has been retired. The R41 is a better shaver for me, and without all the fuss of a straight. Having used the straight for a year I got used to stropping and sending it away for honing now and again. I only realised how ordinary my shaves were getting after using the R41. Going back to the straight seemed like using a rusty bread knife compared to how smooth and efficient the Muhle is. I like the idea of using the straight, the technique etc etc but I had to face the facts - I get a better shave now, with ease. After raving on about straights here, that sound you hear is me choking slightly on a big chunk of humble pie.

OK it's aggressive. But that can be controlled pretty effectively by pressure and angle. I've actually never had a cut or weeper or whatever yet from it.


Here endeth the plug.
 
Watch out @stillshunter! Your OC protege is about to take over from you. [emoji14]
 
filobiblic said:
But they're only human so even the best (like Rod at Stirling) will make mistakes from time to time. (See @Nick the Knife's recent interactions as case in point.)

I could, I'm not sure I want to do that. It's a bit of a minefield over there. You really need to be careful about separating the wheat from the chafe. Some people tend to get their nose put out of joint at the slightest upset (whether a mistake or not) and then rant lyrical about it.
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True, but Rod fixed his mistake in like 2 sec - whereas the above seller has been known to attack customers, if they made him aware of a mistake...

I am sure you can easily distinguish between the "Lee never replies to my Emails - I hate him" posts and XXX has crappy customer service...
 
@Nonick and also any other Muhle R41 owners - how do you guys find it on your ATG pass? Do you have any issues with it at all or find it quite usable?

I'm tending to find it's sensational for a 1st pass-WTG, pretty good-ok for XTG but a bit of a bridge too far for ATG/touching up stuff.

Thanks in advance.
 
NtK I also find that ATG is a bit much.

I've never actually even tried it. Maybe I should just to see the results, but I'm usually pretty happy if I'm careful with the two passes.

You can have too much of a good thing after all..:)

XTG might be that third helping of Pav after which you feel sick and the whole meal is ruined.
 
Nonick said:
NtK I also find that ATG is a bit much.

I've never actually even tried it. Maybe I should just to see the results, but I'm usually pretty happy if I'm careful with the two passes.

You can have too much of a good thing after all..:)

XTG might be that third helping of Pav after which you feel sick and the whole meal is ruined.
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@Nonick , thanks for the reply.

Well I feel somewhat better about my 'aversion' to using the R41 ATG. Being that you're generally a SR user would you generally on a normal shave use your SR for an ATG pass? Interested to contrast given that you feel discretion is the better part of valor with the R41.

I agree completely with your Pav analogy and think that thankfully most experienced wetshavers have learnt to listen to their skin on whats a good idea.
 
So this morning I tried a three pass shave with the R41.

I think @Nightguard 's new avatar is very appropriate.

The good news is most of my blood is still in my body. The third pass was very uncomfortable, a lot of tugging and scraping sensations. Left my face feeling like expanded metal. Yes it's very smooth but it's so sensitive any benefit of less stubble is outweighed by the missing layer of epidermis.

I'm reminded of a mine I worked at once where they had just cleared the trees, and then started the beginning of the pit by taking away the topsoil. Face shovel, I think they called it!


NtK when using my straight I never attempted ATG either, so maybe I'm just a wimp. With the long blade and handle it's extremely awkward to get certain places like the neck ATG. The R41 would be easier to handle technique wise, as any DE would be.


I'll be right back after I change my neck bandages
 
Menthol my friend, numb and disinfectant in one :)
 
Nonick said:
So this morning I tried a three pass shave with the R41.

I think @Nightguard 's new avatar is very appropriate.

The good news is most of my blood is still in my body. The third pass was very uncomfortable, a lot of tugging and scraping sensations. Left my face feeling like expanded metal. Yes it's very smooth but it's so sensitive any benefit of less stubble is outweighed by the missing layer of epidermis.

I'm reminded of a mine I worked at once where they had just cleared the trees, and then started the beginning of the pit by taking away the topsoil. Face shovel, I think they called it!


NtK when using my straight I never attempted ATG either, so maybe I'm just a wimp. With the long blade and handle it's extremely awkward to get certain places like the neck ATG. The R41 would be easier to handle technique wise, as any DE would be.


I'll be right back after I change my neck bandages
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@Nonick , well credit where it is due for you taking one for the team - I was literally wincing as I read your post as I knew EXACTLY what you were saying and could empathise with the SOS calls your epidermis was putting out!

FWIW what blade & how many uses did it already have on it for your attempt?

I really like the R41 - it's a great shaver and it's got a genuinely different feel to it in terms of the shaving sensation - BUT I find that I have to keep a second razor nearby to do that ATG/spot polishing stuff - the R41 just doesn't feel like a good tool for this. Which is kind of a bummer but whilst I feel you could find a blade and with the right technique it could do this with minimal/infrequent irritation thats really NOT what you want from your razors - it's very rare I get razor burn/irritation and when I do I feel annoyed with myself as I feel it's something of an amateur error and more on me than the tools.

But as I generally always have 2 razors out on active use rotation its not that big a hassle - and the Slim I've got out at present when dialed down for 3-4 is fantastic for the fine touch stuff I wouldn't try with the R41.
 
To me at least, requiring two razors just overly complicates the matter, so a r41 is redundant.
 
Aside from a daredevil kick, I can't see what fun there is in using an R41. Nobody seems to be able to use it against the grain and the only die hard fan I know (@JugV2 ) doesn't even store it in the same room with a sharp blade like a Feather.
 
Pjotr said:
Aside from a daredevil kick, I can't see what fun there is in using an R41. Nobody seems to be able to use it against the grain and the only die hard fan I know (@JugV2 ) doesn't even store it in the same room with a sharp blade like a Feather.
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I'm thinking @JugV2 may have accidentally done just that. He hasn't posted in here in a while.
 
eggbert said:
I'm thinking @JugV2 may have accidentally done just that. He hasn't posted in here in a while.
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Mr Real Estate of 2014 is too busy retaining his crown for 2015.
Or... his BloodLetter has written it's last word in red across his throat.
 
Nick the Knife said:
@Nonick , well credit where it is due for you taking one for the team - I was literally wincing as I read your post as I knew EXACTLY what you were saying and could empathise with the SOS calls your epidermis was putting out!

FWIW what blade & how many uses did it already have on it for your attempt?

I really like the R41 - it's a great shaver and it's got a genuinely different feel to it in terms of the shaving sensation - BUT I find that I have to keep a second razor nearby to do that ATG/spot polishing stuff - the R41 just doesn't feel like a good tool for this. Which is kind of a bummer but whilst I feel you could find a blade and with the right technique it could do this with minimal/infrequent irritation thats really NOT what you want from your razors - it's very rare I get razor burn/irritation and when I do I feel annoyed with myself as I feel it's something of an amateur error and more on me than the tools.

But as I generally always have 2 razors out on active use rotation its not that big a hassle - and the Slim I've got out at present when dialed down for 3-4 is fantastic for the fine touch stuff I wouldn't try with the R41.
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I Had a Personna @filobiblic gave me, with about 6 shaves on it. Probably not a good idea in hindsight.

I had the last shave with it this morning and it's going in the bin (1 pass, as my chin was still feeling like the fire harrows had been over it)
 
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